Igor Limansky on Healing, Loss, and Surviving Alone in the Wilderness

Igor Limansky did not know that his father passed away until years later — when he was in his teens.  Jenn talks with Igor about how moving to France to learn about his father’s history, meditating, and connecting to what he calls "ancestral skills" while alone in nature helped him better understand his father, himself, and what place he resides in the world.

Guest Bio: Read more about Igor here

Guest Location: Utah, US

Resource from Igor's Journey:

• Poem titled "Identity of Relative and Absolute"

Transcript

Jennifer Wynn  00:17

Hi! Welcome to this episode of The H.I. Note: Healing Inspirations from Life. I'm your host, Jenn Wynn. 

Today we talk to Igor Limansky, about healing, loss, and surviving alone in the wilderness, which he calls: “ancestral skills.” So why was Igor alone in the wilderness? Well, you can read Igor his full bio in the show notes. But I'll say this, in addition to being a community organizer, one of my dear friends, and someone I've worked with, Igor has also been on a reality TV show called Alone, where the production crew drops you very far from the nearest town–and with no camera crews. You film yourself, you are truly alone. As the show creators put it, Alone is, "The most intense survival series on television." So this was a fascinating conversation with Igor. And it was inspiring from the start. We even lit a candle that Igor made for me before pressing record, and setting our intention over the candle's flame really helped me settle in and calm down and center myself, because I was nervous. Igor's was the first episode I recorded for this season. But then we just dove right in. We talk about highs and lows, highs, like reconnecting with loved ones abroad, living in the wilderness, and Beyoncé. And lows like the loss of a loved one. I learned so much from Igor in this conversation. So please stick around afterwards for my love and learning outro, which is a short reflection for me about my key takeaways from this conversation. Let's get started. 

Jennifer Wynn

Hi all, I am so excited for our guest today. And I'll let him introduce himself.

Igor Limansky  02:14

Hey, everybody, my name is Igor Limansky. And what am I? I'm honored to be here is what I am. I remember the very first call we had, a colleague who introduced us and we had the call on the--

Jennifer Wynn  02:28

Obama Foundation colleague.

Igor Limansky  02:30

The Strive Together Obama Foundation connection. And I remember we, like started talking about like business. And then we're like, look, this is dumb. Like, I want to know who you are, I want to know your story. I want to know about your ancestors, I want to know about you. And it was just like an instant explosion of joy and connection and kindness. And I feel like that's just continued and grown.

Jennifer Wynn  02:58

That's exactly what I want to dive into. [Laughing]

Igor Limansky  03:02

Awesome.

We'll probably talk a little bit about this during our time together. But for me, there's also that element of ritual. So there's that moment, like we did before the start of the podcast where we can make an intention. We can light a candle. And there's something so simple in that ritual, but there's also something so ancient and powerful about adding an intention to fire and feeling that burn and feeling that burn inside of us when we're doing those.

Jennifer Wynn  03:28

Yes. When was the first time the ritual of fire had meaning for you?

Igor Limansky  03:33

That is such a good question. The first time… 

Jennifer Wynn  03:38

Or the first thing that comes to mind? 

Igor Limansky  03:40

Yeah, so one of the more impactful ones was, we don't need too much backstory, but I do wilderness survival. I hate the term wilderness survival because it seems like I'm in a bunker with grenades waiting for the end of days. [laughing]

Jennifer Wynn  03:58

But that's isolated, this is your version is way more connected to Mother Earth [laughing] and all that she contains.

Igor Limansky  04:04

Absolutely. And so I think of it much more as ancestral skills and ancestral connection, and that endeavor landed me on a show called Alone that's about living off the land. And the show was filmed in Labrador, so far northeast Canada by by Greenland.

Jennifer Wynn  04:23

Oh, wow.

Igor Limansky  04:23

yeah, it's... it's...

Jennifer Wynn  04:25

 Like almost the North Pole.

Igor Limansky  04:27

For sure. Yeah, it's just outside that like Arctic area. So just south of that, 

Jennifer Wynn  04:32

So is it frozen tundra? Are you on ice?

Igor Limansky  04:35

No, you're south of tundra. And so it's north of Boreal forest and south of tundra. And so it's just where I was, particularly it was on the big river, and I was right where the big river emptied out into the Atlantic and so I can see the Atlantic already. Wow. So it rained every day. And, you know, 

Jennifer Wynn  04:54

No fire. 

Igor Limansky  04:56

So that was a big challenge, right. So I had to drink water, I had to boil water. Because, you know, there's a lot of stuff in that water. And the last thing you want is giardia, or Cryptosporidium, anything of that stuff. So you have to boil and I only

Jennifer Wynn  05:11

Those sound like germs. [Laughing] Am I in the right vicinity, right? [Laughing]

Igor Limansky  05:16

Yeah, they're viruses, they're things you do not want

Jennifer Wynn  05:21

I would not have made it alone. [Laughing]

Igor Limansky  05:23

You'd be surprised, I think, I think it's surprising how it's just a part of us. There's a remembering, like the Earth is teaching you what to do and how to do it. And it's also really hard. [Laughing] So I'm boiling, I have to boil water to drink. So don't get dehydrated. Yeah, and I'm trying to build a fire and it's just soaking wet all the time, 

Jennifer Wynn  05:46

The wood is wet.

Igor Limansky  05:47

The wood is wet. The ground is wet. I was in this very boggy area. So the moment you put your wood down, the water will start to seep up into the wood. And so there's a lot to do around, like, preparation for the fire just physically, right? So how do you get all of your little tinder of various sizes lined up, and then I'm starting a fire with it's called a ferrocerium rod. So it's kind of like flint and steel. It gives a lot more sparks. And so there's like the physical setup of like making sure your structure is right. So you can invite the fire.

Jennifer Wynn  06:21

Invite it?

Igor Limansky  06:22

Yeah, invite it, but it also it's like, you're essentially laying out a buffet for the fire. And like, you know, each of like, firstly, start with the hors d'oeuvre, and then kind of like, move your way up to like, the main.

Jennifer Wynn  06:34

The main course

Igor Limansky  06:36

Yeah, and you just kind of like, take your steps. And if you go too fast, too quickly, the fire won't take it. It needs to grow into it. And so there was a lot of experiences where I had to remind myself that it wasn't just about the physical invitation of the fire, there was a spiritual invitation, there was a moment where I needed to connect to the spirit of the fire and invite it into into the moment and

Jennifer Wynn  07:01

Beyond the yearning because at this point, I'd be freezing cold, a little pissed off, and just wanting the fire–and you're saying something different?

Igor Limansky  07:09

Yeah. Because, you know, I would try that. Like, just like the brute force, like I'm really cold. I want a fire. [Laughing] I'm thirsty. And then there's like, oh, yeah, like I'm, I'm not here for that, like, I'm here to connect more deeply to the elements and connect more deeply to myself. And I had the opportunity to, so there was this Huichol Shaman. And the Huichol are an indigenous people from Northwestern Mexico, and also the southwest of the United States. They're also the holders of peyote. And Don Andreas was an incredible Shaman. And he used to talk about that there's only one fire. So there's a fire that has existed throughout time. So every fire we look at is the same fire that our ancestors looked at. It's the same fire that all of the generations after us will look at. And I have that very vivid moment, connection, 

Jennifer Wynn  07:25

and oneness. 

Igor Limansky  08:03

Yeah. And like seeing all of my ancestors around the fire with me. I also hadn't eaten for like, almost 20 days, [laughing] I had just eaten seaweed. And so and so there was definitely an altered state experience that was happening just because of lack of food and trying to build a shelter out there and sleeping on the ground. And so there's this moment where, you know, the conventional reality starts to give away to like something much more the sense of like slowing down and really feeling into this incredible reality.

Jennifer Wynn  08:38

I'm hearing senses and sensual, and the intimacy and connectedness with the present moment that comes when you settle into the senses of the experience. So I'm curious, what were you sensing prior to sensing your ancestors through that fire? Was it post the actual spark that you then felt the oneness of that eternal flame? And that connectedness?

Igor Limansky  09:05

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. It was, it was a roaring fire. Wow. So it take a long time to take wet wood and turning into a roaring fires, you could boil water, and it was really sitting around that roaring fire, and just feeling all of my ancestors there. And the most vivid moment was it wasn't like an audio. I didn't actually hear it. But it was this feeling of like, you have to know our story. Our names, we want you to know our story and their history. And that was just such a clear. Like, yes, like, absolutely. I want, I want to know you. It felt like a really clear invitation from them.

Jennifer Wynn  09:47

Speaking of ancestors, you are in New York, for many reasons. But I believe for a very special ancestral reason. Would you care to share?

Igor Limansky  09:58

For sure,yeah. So my father is buried upstate. And so my father is French and Russian born in France. My mom's Egyptian Armenian, born in Egypt, they met on a beach in Florida. 

Jennifer Wynn

Of course, 

Igor Limansky

My mom was trying to light a cigarette, and he heard them speaking French, and he like, pulled the lighter out of his feet. [Laughing] Fire as a good thing. He, you know, he wanted to be a farmer. And so at 55, he bought a farm in upstate New York, and he had my sisters and I

Jennifer Wynn  10:33

Wow.

Igor Limansky  10:34

 And I think there were a lot of challenges for him, he had fought in the Indochina War, he had a drinking issue. And so he actually committed suicide, and he's buried upstate. And I try and get there every few years to pay my respects, but also to clean his grave. It's, it's such a wet climate, and there's so much, yeah, so much just grows. And so every time I go there, it's really just like, covered with lichen and grasses. And so that process of, of caring for something in the physical world that feels like I'm caring for the karma, of, of his legacy. So I'm very aware that, you know, for my mom, and for my sisters, they've never been to his grave. And I don't think that's something, I don't think that's something that interests them. And for me, it's had such a powerful impact in feeling a connection to the whole person of my father, and not just his suicide, and getting to know him.

I spent almost three years in France, learning French and getting to know his family. And there's this, there's this reality of he's buried in a specific place that no one will go visit. And so I try and make a pilgrimage up there. And I drive past, it's a place called Zen Mountain Monastery, and it's a beautiful place near, uhm kind of near Woodstock and Phoenicia. And I try and spend some time there and to longer sit and listen to their service before going over there. And just enact that ritual of settling into myself, settling into my not-self–in the sense of, I do feel like the healing that comes from that visit, it has to do with me being willing to be aware of the pain and the trauma. But it also comes from this place where I don't know how to say it, a place where you know, where I'm completely whole, and there is nothing but healing and awareness. And I feel like I wouldn't be able to heal if I didn't know that that was me. As much as the pain is me. The feeling of like wholeness and healing and just pure awareness is also me. And there's this real just kind of miracle of life that we're both those things like we’re our pain and our suffering and all of these, like unique expressions of the beauty and train wreck that is me. And there's like this place that's just pure awareness, where it's not about my identity, it's not about my past. 

And the place I practice meditation in Salt Lake City is called two arrows. And there's a poem called “The Identity of Relative and Absolute.” And in there, there's a line, essentially about two arrows meeting in midair. And it's, it's used to describe this, like miracle of life, like what is living, like, it's like the wonder of two arrows meeting in midair and going like, oh my gosh, like that, that's my like everyday life is this like merger of like this absolute just awareness, where we are like whole, and there's not even the sense of us, there's just pure awareness. And that, like, we bring all of our, you know, challenges to that. 

And that reminder, you know, before visiting my dad's grave, and I visit the house, the firehouse where he committed suicide, and I got to hang out with a couple who lives there. Now, it's a couple from Brooklyn couldn't afford the Hudson Valley. [laughing] So they just moved a little further, and we just told stories and and I just spend time, you know, in the kitchen, where he shot himself and on the porch where, you know, he spent a lot of time and, you know, there's there's something about place, and there's something about the healing that can happen with more awareness and just this is it. 

Jennifer Wynn  12:47

And at the root of the wound?

Igor Limansky

Yeah. 

Jennifer Wynn

I'm captivated by several of the things you said. That last image, two arrows meeting in the sky in midair. In midair. Yeah, the miraculousness of that the delight in being alive, the great I AM in that.

Igor Limansky  15:11

Absolutely.

Jennifer Wynn  15:12

I am, admittedly captivated by. And maybe that's the wrong word honestly. But I am with, I am taken by the loss, the suffering you endured, that I imagine your father endured, and I am captivated by the reconnection to love you had when it probably could have been really easy to disconnect. Yeah. So maybe that's forgiveness? Maybe that's healing to your point of feeling a sense of wholeness? Maybe that sincerely holding the multiple truths of life, that there was suffering and there was love. It's not either/or. But I think I just want to hear from you. What was the pain you experienced? And when did it transition? Or when did you transmute it into something else?

Igor Limansky  16:02

Yeah, I feel like your just love. And, like a real feeling for my experience. And I appreciate that. 

Yeah, growing up, my father's death really impacted my mom and her mental health. And she could just not talk about my father to the point where she would actually tell me to, like, tell kids that my father is still alive, because she didn't want me to talk about it. And, and so growing up, there was just this question of, like, what is going on? Like, what happened to my father? I didn't know he committed suicide until I was in my teens. And so there was just this question. And for me, it had a lot to do with being a man wondering, like, what type of what type of man was my father? And what type of man will I be, and asking in to those questions, and wanting to know who he was, and more than that, wanting, I think a lot of like, the Jonah in the belly of the whale, that sort of, like diving into this, like, darkness and this shadow over my life, and feeling like, there was something of such value, like hidden in those depths, and that I had to uncover it, I get it didn't feel like it would be easier to disconnect. It felt like, like my life force was like at the bottom of that ocean, and  I had to get there. And I had to like, pull whatever it was down there, you know, back up, if I want it to be a whole human being and if I wanted to have a sense of, of what it meant to me to be a man. That sort of question of what is that for me? It felt so linked to my father. 

Jennifer Wynn  17:53

And, and in contrast to the disassociation that your mother was using for her own survival, I imagine.

Igor Limansky  18:02

Absolutely. 

Jennifer Wynn  18:03

Almost that was either not a life you were choosing for yourself or a not a lifelessness? I don't know if those are even words that resonate, but I hear it, a choice. And I wonder if the contrast aided that choice?

Igor Limansky  18:19

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it did. In some ways, I feel like my, my decision to want to practice meditation came so much from that–I do not know how to handle this, myself, and they need some sort of practice to help me work with it. 

But I was very lucky to find meditation teachers, specifically in the Zen lineage that I've been practicing in. And so there was a really incredible Zen master named Maezumi Roshi, who came from Japan. And I've been studying with with a few of his students, and particularly Diane Hamilton, who is just a brilliant teacher, and I feel so honored to study with her. And that sort of access to just awareness. It's been a healing place for me to not escape from identity, but realize that like underneath all of that, is this really unmanufactured Being, that's just like here, and we all have access to it. 

And I think it's one of the things that really drew me to the wilderness is so many people have that experience when you get to the top of a mountain, or you see this like calm lake, or there's these moments where, like, the sense of self disappears, and there's just this moment of connection and awareness, and the realization that like, oh, that's trainable. Like I can, I can do that. Even when I'm, you know, at my father's grave and upset or even when I'm like feeling into things that are really challenging that like all that's here, and there's just this like, incredible background of just awareness and support and healing that's holding, you know, everything, like generations of trauma, pain, and then all of it is like arising in awareness. And that awareness holds it all. And so that that's been the backdrop that's helped me to encounter a lot of this pain and trauma. And I really do feel by being aware of it, it gives it an opportunity to heal.

Jennifer Wynn  20:31

Wow, I need to pause. [laughing] Truely I'm like very in this,

Igor Limansky  20:38

I know that you're asking me the questions. But I really want to ask you. So is that okay?

Jennifer Wynn  20:44

Please do.  Yes,hat do you want to ask?

Igor Limansky  20:45

I'm curious, like, what do you have, like a name or a feeling or, like image about what that what that is?

Jennifer Wynn  20:54

Yeah, I'm really struck by you saying the awareness of the pain and trauma is what creates space for healing. The quality of that awareness feels, I won't say unique, because I do think it's accessible and achievable for all of us. But it feels different from how I was aware of some of my biggest traumas for many, many years. 

So growing up in a childhood with domestic violence, you know, the physical and verbal abuse was very audible, visible, in our faces, I don't really think there was much room, at least once we reached a certain age to deny it. So I was aware that I was experiencing abuse, and probably could even call it that starting like around age 9 or 10. But for many years, I would say decades, just because I was aware that I had experienced something really difficult doesn't mean that I was aware of the pain and suffering in my body, in my day to day, how the past kept showing up in the present, until I chose to not just become aware that that was the fact of the matter that my past is showing up in my present. But that if I want it to be different in the future, I'm going to have to go back and understand that past to understand why it's showing up the way it is in the–in the present. Why am I so fearful of authority? Why am I scared to make a wrong move? Why am I avoiding conflict and trying not to add fuel to the fire whenever someone seems a little ticked off, and I think something's about to spark, right? Like for me to understand all of those subconscious choices that I'm making in my present, I really need to go back and understand how the pain and suffering and trauma of my past keeps showing up. And with that quality of awareness, like a real curiosity, to go into the belly, as you said, like a real desire to understand. With that type of awareness, I began to have a shot at healing at holding my past, but not letting my past hold me prisoner in the present.

Igor Limansky  23:01

Jenn, I'm really curious. So I hear you like being willing to, like open up to the past and the trauma because you're watching the way it's influencing your present. And I'm wondering, like, as you're opening up to, like the experiences in the trauma what, what was creating healing for you? Right, like what was opening up more possibilities for working with that intensity?

Jennifer Wynn  23:30

Seeing what it made possible. And I mean, that intergenerationally I think, when I did a talk on healing conversations two years ago, which you were present for, thank you. It was the first time I was able to articulate that forgiveness and healing, things that I had been yearning for for so many years, wasn't just simply about moving forward, or forgetting the past. But instead it was about understanding the truth of the past in all its complexity, letting go of the pieces that no longer serve me (with appreciation and understanding of where they came fromthat's the, you know, part that harkens back to the first part). And then from there making a new way. I was able to articulate that, but I hadn't really experienced the making a new way yet. And in the last few years, seeing my kids be able to tell me in the moment, “Mommy, the way you said that made me scared” is a really hard thing to hear. As a mom who adores just unconditional love, like kids, as you know, and realizing, Oh, I could have never said that. I was locked in such deep survival mode that I would have never dared to say. What you're saying right now is scaring me please stop or seeing my mom and renovate her apartment or do things for herself that she would have never done before. 

And many years ago, almost a decade ago, I was able to articulate for myself that I didn't want to simply end the intergenerational cycle of abuse in my family, I wanted to start a new cycle of self worth. But when I said that I didn't know what that looked like. And so each time, I see an example of self love, or self worth, anywhere in my lineage, whether it's the future with my kids, ancestors with my mom, or elders, or moments, with myself, when I put up a boundary, I say, ‘Hey, I know you really need my help with that, but I can't this time around, come back to me next time’, sometimes small is big, 

Igor Limansky  25:44

For sure. 

Jennifer Wynn  25:45

And so when I see those shifts, that really do make a new way, a new way rooted in self worth, and unconditional love, that puts ego aside, recognizes ego but but chooses something different, some, something more powerful and loving and interconnected, then I think: “I want more of that.”

Igor Limansky  26:07

For sure. I also, like something I'm hearing that I appreciate is like the miracle of the moment, and like the simplicity of it, right. And so as someone who grew up reading a lot of comic books, comic books are like my, my like vitamins growing up, and then they changed my life for many reasons. But I'll say it also gave me the sense of, you know, that things had to be grand, they had to be big, and they had to be intense. And so they were like these climactic moments that had happened. And something that I hear you saying, and something that's really been true in my life is that it's that really simple moment where I can say, I love you, and I can't do this right now. You know, maybe a little later, but I need to take this time, or I need to set this boundary, I need to do this thing that seems so small. And it's easy for me to say like, oh, this is just a little thing. And I can do it, even if it feels outside of like my integrity, and to be able to set that and do it. It really does feel like oh, that, that's possible. And I did it. And that is healing. And that is like, like you're saying, creating these pathways and routines that that can create more healing and more opportunity and more momentum. And there's, there's something so simple and powerful about the like day to day quotidian routine.

Jennifer Wynn  27:32

Yes! And how it builds upon itself. It's profound, 

Igor Limansky  27:36

For sure. 

Jennifer Wynn  27:37

At least the experience has been for me whenever I've had the joy of experiencing it.

Igor Limansky  27:41

Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious there any stories, myths, you know, anything that you drew upon? That was helpful for you in those moments?

Jennifer Wynn  27:52

That's a great question. Beyoncé. [laughing]

Igor Limansky  27:57

She's always here.

Jennifer Wynn  27:58

I mean, I we can we can really pick any project just because her ability to reimagine the world [laughing] just over the years has really inspired me. But two specific examples that come to mind lemonade, the ability to talk about awareness, situate her pain, in larger intergenerational cycles of pain. And I don't simply mean, the other women in her family who had also suffered the infidelity of their partners, but also her ability to acknowledge her partner's pain, and how, for many systemic reasons, he had been taught not to love himself. And her ability to hold his truth. While holding her pain and her truth, and deciding, “if we're gonna heal, it's going to be glorious,” right? To quote her, right? Her deciding that, nope, actually, we're gonna break the cycle, we're gonna understand it. First, we're gonna break the cycle. And we're going to transmute this pain that both of us are carrying into something way more beautiful and understanding and eternal, right, this this bigness of love. And I think we see that bigness of love. In many of the things she does. I could also speak to Black is King, right, I could speak to Renaissance. So having a real life superhero in Beyoncé, I think that's been pretty special for me.

Igor Limansky  29:32

That's incredible.

Jennifer Wynn  29:34

Thank you for that. 

Igor Limansky

Thank you. 

Jennifer Wynn

So you just put a big smile on my face. So I think I'm gonna ask you a question about joy.

Igor Limansky  29:45

Please.

Jennifer Wynn  29:46

Yeah. Okay. What's a joyful moment? That when you think of it when you remember it, it just brings a really big smile to your face? It could be from your childhood, could be a recent joy.

Igor Limansky  30:01

I got a story for you. This is, uhh, I didn't think about this. So you just said that but, it's, I mentioned that I moved to France for about two and a half years. A little bit of a backstory is so my, my cousin's, which my mom had a falling out with, when I was about 10 years old. I reconnected with them when I was in my gosh, that’d be early 20s. So there's a lot of disconnection with the Egyptian side of my family. And when I reconnected with them, they actually sent me this box of my father's stuff. And there were love letters to my mom, there was his war record, there was stories he had written as a child. And they were all in French, and I couldn't read French. And so there was like this moment of like, real clarity around like this, this man's life is in French. And like, if I'm going to connect to it, and connect to that part of my lineage, and ancestry, I really need to learn French. And so it was after the first Obama campaign. So it’s 2009,

Jennifer Wynn  31:11

That was a win. [laughing]

Igor Limansky  31:18

Talk about moments of joy. [laughing] I'll tell you another story of hopping a train after the election. But that's another story. 

So I decided to move to France. And there was like this point for me where. You know, the first Obama campaign, it finished, and I had this moment, like, oh, my gosh, I'm like moving into like a career. And I can't do that. Like, I can't pursue this like, career of being in organizing, being in politics, til I like heal what's going on in me. And there's like this really conscious decision of like, I am not going to try and pursue continuing to work in here in politics and organizing, and I'm going to move to France, and kind of work with this really challenging pain that I experienced, around my father. And as I moved to France, I meet my my half brother, 18 years older than me, for the first time. We cook a lot together, which is amazing.

Jennifer Wynn  32:19

You're an amazing cook.

Igor Limansky  32:20

Thank you. He's an amazing cook. I remember the first meal he made me was it's Capon, un coq castré farci au Fogra et aux morilles which means like, it's a castrated rooster stuffed with like foie gras and morel mushrooms.

Jennifer Wynn  32:38

Oh my Gosh, the French. [laughing]

Igor Limansky  32:39

Yeah, for sure. I appreciate that, like all of my lineages love food and cook really well. So I moved to France, I also get to know my aunt. So my father's sister. And my father is born in 1927. And she was born in 1929. So she's older at this point. And I get to spend a few days with her because her husband's in the hospital, and she can't really quite take care of herself. So I go over to her house, and we go through an album, and she's able to tell me stories about my father. And we go and pick up her husband from the hospital, and their kids are there and my cousins, and we're–their son, it's like trying to like, wheel, my uncle, like his father, like out of the hospital and in a wheelchair, and he like is stuck on a curb for some reason, he can't quite get it. And so I just go over and I like, you know, help them over the curb and like, take him to the car. And she says, my aunt says to me, “your Father's proud of you.” 

And there's this moment where, like, I know, she feels like what my father feels like, you know, like she she lived with him, she grew up with them. And so is this really felt sensation of like he's here, like, and he's proud of you. And it was like the first time I like felt like what my father feels like. And a few nights later, I had this dream. And it was the first moment where I dreamt of someone who was my father, with my father's face. And in the dream, he just he called me son, and I called him dad. And we hugged and I woke up from that dream and there was this really clear feeling of like lightness and connection. And whatever, you know, pain that was associated with my father, here was also his life, there was also his family, and there was also this immensity of healing and possibility and connection, and it changed. It changed the way I thought of my father's change the way I thought of myself. 

Jennifer Wynn  35:00

So I hear an essence of love, what do you take away from that?

Igor Limansky  35:06

That it's all there if we go looking for it. Like if we really want healing in our life and are willing to open up to the pain and the challenge that there is healing on the other side.

Jennifer Wynn  35:20

What do you wish for yourself next in your healing journey,

Igor Limansky  35:24

I'm really moved by what you said about creating new routines with your family. And I feel really blessed to have my, the of my life and to be married to her. And I really hope we can create new routines and new ways of being a new gardens together.

Jennifer Wynn  35:51

Ashe.  What do you wish for others in their healing journeys? And any advice or resources you recommend?

Igor Limansky  35:56

It's a great question. And I, I wish we can all be free, that we can all feel that profound freedom and awareness and being that's available to us and hear all the time. 

Jennifer Wynn

May it be so.

Igor Limansky

And I hope everyone has an opportunity to feel that in their lives.

Jennifer Wynn  36:21

Wow, I think your story is going to inspire people to go search and seek what as you said, is there.

Igor Limansky  36:32

I mean, also say, you know, therapy has helped me alot. 

Jennifer Wynn  36:37

Mm-hmm, same here. [laughing]

Igor Limansky  36:39

And my, you know, having a meditation practice, it feels really mutually informative. And it feels like they're, 

Jennifer Wynn

Meaning therapy and meditation together? 

Igor Limansky

Exactly. And it feels like there are things that I can talk about and understand cognitively through therapy, which really helped with my behavior with my decisions and my choices. And there's just this space of, I can drop all of that I can drop this like self improvement project, I can let all of that go and be present. And it's not even me being present. It's just like, awareness, presence being and that is such a salve. Like, to know that it's not me doing all these things. And

Jennifer Wynn  37:33

Yes, because otherwise self improvement is a heavy burden at times to shoulder, right? Or heavy project. Exactly.

Igor Limansky  37:42

Yeah, we're not we're not going to do it. 

Jennifer Wynn  37:44

Solo.

Igor Limansky  37:46

Yeah. And like, I don't think there's I can I, let's do it. And there's, you know, there's so much I can do to improve myself, which is awesome. And yeah, I'm happy I do those things. [laughing]

Jennifer Wynn  38:03

Yes, and, 

Igor Limansky  38:06

And it's only, it's only one of those arrows. The other arrow that's meeting in midair, is that, you know, just awareness and being that's just here, right now.

Jennifer Wynn  38:18

All of the possibility is in the present. Thank you for that. 

I'm in sheer delight. [laughing]

Igor Limansky  38:27

Same.  This is such a great way to end my trip to New York. It's been such an awesome trip.

Jennifer Wynn  38:32

Yay! Any highlights or things you want to share?

Igor Limansky  38:38

At the Met right now is a Van Gogh ever, and so I got to see Starry Night.

Jennifer Wynn  38:44

Starry Night. I didn't know it's at the Met right now, my gosh. Field trip.  Torrey?

Igor Limansky

Let’s all go.

Jennifer Wynn

Let’s all go.

Igor Limansky  38:45

And it is such a you know, it's about healing. It's about rebirth. It's about Van Gogh's journey with mental illness and his capturing of the stars coming down to meet us and the Cyprus is growing up. And it's stunning and also say I met Rosaline Elbay, who was like this actress who she's an Egyptian actress who's just one of my favorites. And like I'm walking into the Met, and she's like, coming out like, oh my gosh, and she's like, I keep DMing her on Instagram, and she's responded a few times, like recommended an Egyptian producer for the documentary I was filming and and so I like said like, Hey, Rose and and so she was super gracious and really wonderful. It was just like one of those New York moments like oh, yeah, this actress who I absolutely adore

Jennifer Wynn  39:42

At the Met, while checking out Van Gogh. That's beyond a New York moment. That's like, the universe is in dialogue with you.

Igor Limansky  39:50

Oh, I felt that. Yes. Yeah,

Jennifer Wynn  39:53

Waving. Hello. Yeah. This has been wonderful. Oh

Igor Limansky  39:57

Oh my gosh, this is my highlight. If I had to name one highlight, it's getting to see you in person and getting to do this together.

Jennifer Wynn  40:03

That's how I feel! Thank you so much, Igor, for the joy, for the wisdom, for the open sharing. Thank you.

Igor Limansky  40:16

Thank you for having me here.

[transition music]

Jennifer Wynn  40:22

What a conversation, thanks for sticking around for my love and learning outro. This is a short reflection about my key takeaways from this conversation with Igor. Here's what I'm loving and learning. Three things: ritual, awareness, choice. 

There was a fair amount of ritual in what Igor shared, and what exactly is ritual, a meaningful ceremony that follows a prescribed order–it can be religious, but it does not have to be. And that ritual connects you to something greater than yourself. So for Igor, it was lighting a fire. And what a shaman shared with him, about there only being one fire, the same fire that our ancestors lit generations before us, and those who come after us will light for generations after.  Such a powerful concept, because it's at once grounding, and provides perspective–helps me zoom out. So for me, it helps remind me that there are practices bigger than myself, that can help me transcend the hard knocks of my life. And before I can transform, whatever is not serving me, I have to be aware of it. 

So that brings me to awareness. There was so much paying attention and noticing and acknowledging in what Igor shared. There was acknowledgement of the pain and surrender to something greater than oneself, and an asking for help. For Igor, that was acknowledging, I don't know which way to go. So I'm going to meditate. And there was a curiosity and actively seeking to understand more of the past, which I can personally relate to. For me, though, the awareness that resonates the most is paying attention to the sometimes subtle shifts, and using that as motivation to believe I'm becoming a better version of myself, and making a better way, and therefore to keep going. For Igor it was that moment when his aunt said his dad was proud. And she felt his dad's presence. And then he dreamed of his father for the first time a few days later. 

So that brings me to choice. By holding all of this complexity in our lives, it becomes generative, more options, more possibilities become available to me than I could previously see. And from there, I can choose what most serves me, I can choose wholeness and healing. 

So my question for you is, what are you loving? And what are you learning from this conversation? 

I hope you were inspired by at least one thing for your own healing journey. And if you were inspired, please share this episode with someone. It would mean so much to us. 

And not everything will be for everyone. And that's A-okay. Take what you need. Leave what you don't. And one more question, based on what you're loving and learning from today's conversation. What's one thing you commit to doing next, for healing? 

Thank you so much for listening. Much love, everyone!